what didn't happen

The idea was to talk about a disagreeable situation in an adult manner. The definition I was given for this when I asked was this:

talking about it like two adults would be things like not adding more stuff to fight about, not being nitpicky about how things are worded, no blaming or ignoring or sweeping under the rug or getting sarcastic or whatever as opposed to going around in circles like we did this morning just making things worse

Now, that means I have several criteria that fall into having an adult conversation. They would occur as follows:

• not reaching outside of the scope of our current issue to simply fight about extra things
• not being critical about semantics
• no blaming
• no ignoring
• no downplaying of issues
• not being sarcastic or otherwise being snarky
• not circumventing issues

Now then, before these criteria came into the conversation, I admit that I was just as snarky -- if not more so, than Dani was. Let's take a look at some snippets.

• .......
  
• i use it EXCLUSIVELY. whether your question is silly isn't a question. i am simply incredulous that you ask me a question which implies that i would have offered you something that wouldn't be "good". especially considering the background i have.

In each of those examples, I could have simply answered a question with a "yes" or "no", but I was thoroughly irritated such that I didn't. I do admit that. Also, as I said during my comment about the amount of fighting we do (and its length), I admit the following [emphasis orange]:

actually, it's because neither of us really feel like bending about much of anything. even if we "go along with it", we're openly unhappy about it most of the time with a few exceptions. i notice and recognize this about myself about 56% of the time. it probably occurs 2/3 of the time.

at least, those are my thoughts.

These are still my thoughts about our arguments among other things. These things came before establishing context about adult conversation which I did. That was its own brand of fun, but I digress. What I wanted to address was everything that happened after that statement, which as follows:

now this is where we exchange ideas and you tell me what you're thinking. mind you, i am going to use your statement about speaking as adults as a guideline for how i'll treat the rest of this convo.

i can't be happy about something i don't wnat to do and have already suggested an alternative when i've mentioned it many times over and over and then get fussed at for not stating what i'd like

don't act like that

don't turn my words against me and rub stuff in my face

that just adds fuel to the fire

and i know how converstions are supposed to go, the mutal talking and listening

please don't treat me like i'm a child who has never dealt with these things

i'm not. could you please stop acting like i'm throwing things in your face whenever i quote you?

at least do me the small favor of assuming i'm actually trying to have a conversation about a disagreement in a manner that will actually go well for the both of us.

you have made a suggestion as to how i could do that

so i want to use that as a reference.

and i'm not going to be able to do that if the first thing you think is "he's throwing this that and the other in my face"

can try to take my advice without quoting me

when you quote someone like that it's as if you're saying that they are more guilty and need the reminder for themself and obviously can't remember it for themselves

only applies to you.

most other people understand that i'm simply setting ground rules and let the comment go.

out of the ones i talk to

you asked them

yes. i have. as a matter of fact, i usually state it to them in that manner at least once.

you stopped after statements like that and said "do you feel like i'm patronizing you by quoting you in the midst of an argument"

never need to unless i'm talking to you; in my other arguments with people, they'll simply ask me to skip ideas if they hear something that they feel doesn't need to be said. my other arguments with people go pretty well.

fineit's all my fault now that we can't fight right

i would like to point out, however, that we can discuss this later. we have something else to discuss for now.

i'll shut up and you talk

okay. i'm going to make a statement and i want you to just respond to it. i think that will work out best. i'll start with the last thing you said.

i am NOT saying it's your fault that we can't do whatever, but i AM saying that i don't want you to immediately jump to what appears to me the be the worst possible of conclusions or assumptions about my motives or purpose for doing something.

your turn

i don't know what you're talking about

are you talking about me feeling you're implying i'm an unfair idiot for quoting me while we're arguing?

other things, yes.

then treat me like i'm just as smart as you and assume that i'll already try my best to do those things

don't assume i'm going to disregard something i've asked you to do

okay. that is fair, but even treating you as i treat myself or other people that i feel are as intelligent as me, i still quote and repeat things. this includes spoken conversation. and often.

it is more for my sake, honestly.

i'll try to learn to ignore you

because it keeps me from losing sight of what the problem was instead of directing anger and whatever to everything else.

if it really bothers you that much, then i just won't, but i don't know what effect that will have either.

we'll see

i suppose so.

now then, the last time we saw each other, you talked to me in the car about many things that you were upset with me about [at my request]. it is my understanding that you're upset because i didn't talk about my thoughts on those things [aside from the other things you said you were upset about]. am i correct so far?

not entirely

okay. correct that statement.

i understand you needed time to process things

i'm probably more upset at would may happen as a result of you not talking about those things

for example nothing ever getting solved

okay. are there things that remain unsolved right now?

idk

okay. are there things that you feel are unsolved?

i have too many thoughts in my head about too many different things and i can't even remember everything from the other night

so once again my answer is i don't know

see.

okay then.

why don't you tell me what did get solved and how it was solved and perhaps that will help me sort my thoughts out

Well as for my part I've taken the comments from that night. Apart from my feelings I have gathered the following:

> if we leave your house you would prefer to be outdoors. not at my house. if we are going to be indoors, you would prefer to be at your own home.

> i do not give proper attention to the manner in which you make your wishes known.

the manner?

yes. please let me finish.

> i become angry/upset/distant/etc when things do not occur as i wish them (such as playing video games or what have you).

> i do not talk about things in a manner that allows definitive conclusions to be drawn so that there can be discussion and closure on a matter.

okay. now you have a question about a word choice?

yes

why did you choose that word choice?

because i believe it is appropriate and comprehensive.

also makes it sound like my "manner" was something other than direct verbalization

ah. that does leave me another point

> i am especially adept at ignoring words spoken by you, even when precise, about things you do/do not wish to do.

that is what i gathered from our last interaction, all emotion data aside.

ok while this peek into your head is appreciated it wasn't what i asked for

i wanted to know what had been solved and how it was solved

i get that.

that is part of my answer.

may i continue?

please do it looked like you were done since you asked me for my questions

i have to pause now and then, you know.

in any case, with that data, the thing that is solved is that you have two things.

1. an understanding of how i believe you perceive me

2. the knowledge that i have some grasp on what you were telling me that day which now means you have a way to observe and compare future behavior

which addresses the issue of my attentiveness to the things that you say or will say

that would be one thing solved.

the other thing solved of course is my requesting that we go somewhere.

i don't have to and since this has come up, i will be significantly less likely to do so

or if we do, it will be in the parameters specified.

well that confirms one of my fears. thank you

which is what?

that you will call/text/be around less because i was honest with you

that wasn't what i said.

please re-read my sentence.

you don't have to request that we go somewhere and will be less likely to request that we go somewhere UNLESS it's outside or at my house

less likely

i don't think i miseed anything

i think something was missed.

I have said that i am going to request that we go somewhere unless outside or your house. how does that translate into texting/calling/being around less?

less likely

i don't see how you are connecting those together. please explain.

let's just see

let's just see what happens as far as us being together

no. i really want you to explain this. you just said i confirmed a fear. i need you to explain.

and let's see if when we are together you seem happy to be with me even though it's not at your place on your computer or in front of the super nintendo

my fear is that if it's not exactly how you want it then i'll see less of you

now you have the attitude that you don't have to ask me anywhere

at this point, i believe you are upset. i would like you to tell me if that is correct. then i want you to explain why/why not?

upset at the thought that being honest with you means that you won't be around as much or that if you are around it will be with the resentment that you can't be exactly where you want to b? yes i am a little upset at that

that thought distrurbs me and why wouldn't it

i want to be with you and i have bent for you. i've gone to your house several times since being back in athens

and then i ask if we can go to mine an that request gets ignored and then you get mad at me for not stating what i wanted (going to my hosue) which i actually did state and now since you know i don't like being at your apartment i have to see you less

you have to? again, where did this come from?

your statement

so far, in the most basic of terms, i've said i'm not going to ask you to come to my house.

that leaves everything else open.

and even if i didn't see you less and i saw you jsut as much but it was somewhere i was comfortable with you wouldn't be happy with it so it would be pointless

and you've assumed (so far) that i'm just not going to ask you to do anything at all (or close to it).

fine

i assumed

so back to my earlier statement

can we not do that, please/

we'll see what happens

i was perfectly fine waiting to see what happens, you made me explain

explaining just put words to it. you would have felt the same with or without words.

but this does confirm a couple of things for me at least.

and i'm going to keep feeling that way until you prove me wrong

and i'll just be okay with that.

i would like to ask a question, though.

well i guess we're both confirming our fears about each other

perhaps we haven't changed that much

not really. i haven't confirmed yours yet and you've confirmed quite a few of mine atm.

fine

leave a message i'll check it later

i have no idea what is on your end, but on mine, you see me as a selfish jerk.

later.

and in that message please let me know eveyr horrible thing you feel about me so that i will know exactly how you see me

every thing i've confirmed for you about myself that is so bad

i suppose

and what fears you think you haven't confirmed for me

but the question i would like to ask you is this:

and how you're so wonderufl

and i'm apparently nothing

if i am a selfish jerk, then why do you bother? i understand that the question is a bit stark, but i don't have a way to ask it. i'm not going to ask you to put up with me if you don't think anything positive will come from it.

that's all.

Whew. I'm only going to say the obvious in as understated a manner as possible: the concept got lost pretty quickly. In the end, it's the same and I can admit it to myself. We want what we want and people that get in the way of that get hurt and we usually mind whatever damage is caused at the time. That's just how it is, I guess.

In spite of any thoughts about, "Well, I went to your house for a while...", you obviously didn't enjoy it to the same degree that you expect me to enjoy being at your home. Honestly, I don't care. I'm going to have fun regardless because I want to.

Aside from those things, I suppose there is a lot I could say, but I won't because those things are apparent in the reading. The other things I could say will be said by actions, so I can just tuck that away, too. I can say this, though... none of it will be expected.

Oh well, I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't.